"If ever an institution has been in need of humbling, it is [the Roman Catholic Church]. If it were prepared to keep its unreasonable, inhumane teachings to its own members, we would not protest. But increasingly it tries to impose those teachings on the world outside by the ruthless pursuit of secular political power. Not content to forbid abortion and contraception to its own faithful, it tries to deny them to us all. It instructs its bishops to agitate in the political arena, it threatens Catholic politicians who do not vote in the way they “should” and it operates covertly behind the scenes using its diplomatic power to gain access to the decision makers. And yet despite its manipulation of the democratic processes, it does not operate democratically itself. It answers no questions, covers its secrets and hides its corruption behind impenetrable walls."- Terry Sanderson quoted in The Freethinker[1]

"Condoms cause AIDS"- Former Pope Benedict XVI.

Very many, possibly most liberals have some religious faith, and there are Conservative atheists. We're liberal Freethinkers on this website, and we like getting together with others who agree with us.

The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian church that was meant to be progressive as Jesus Christ would see fit but yet it traditionally believes everyone should do what the Pope says even when the Pope is wrong. They are also called the Church of Rome because their headquarters are in Rome, Italy. They were the ones who ruled Europe for nearly a thousand years, burning people who said that the Earth went around the sun. They also believe everyone should do what priests, monks, and nuns tell them to do. Priests monks and nuns are supposed to stay celibate. That can make them very miserable, angry and frustrated. Then they make the people around them miserable, angry and frustrated. Not all priests, monks and nuns have the will power to stay celibate. Many of them vent their frustration instead, because they are just like us, and not special in any way whatsoever. Some are fairly decent but others are liars and misguided. The Roman Catholic Church as a whole is very large and is neither uniformly good nor uniformly evil. Still, Roman Catholics try to pretend that they are better than they really are and that needs to be neutralized.

Dissenting Roman Catholics

Yes in advanced countries with high standards of education and democratic traditions there are increasing numbers of dissenting Roman Catholics who defy the authority of the pope in one or more areas, see Catholics for Choice there is also a group. Quest for Lesbian and Gay Catholics[2] and these are just two examples. Traditional Roman Catholics find the dissenting trend threatening and call the dissenters bad Catholics. Still, dissenters are becoming the majority.

Likewise, only 36% of (UK) Catholics say that the Church is a positive force in society, and when those who take the opposite view are asked their reasons, the most popular are: that it discriminates against women and gay people; the child abuse scandals; that it’s hypocritical; and that it’s too morally conservative. (Linda Woodhead, professor of sociology of religion at Lancaster University [2]


Most Liberal Protestant Christians are more liberal than typical Catholics. Despite this most Catholics are not as conservative as many Protestant Fundies, many Roman Catholics disapprove the idea of intelligent design and most believe in something called theistic evolution. Still, many disapprove gay marriages, contraception, Jews, Muslims, abortion and rock music (though they do approve Ted Nugent as he speaks for them anyway).

Despite the conservative tendencies of Catholicism, there are many liberal Catholics and liberal Catholics are not crazy and don't necessarily despise any of the things above. You also have to admit that Catholic girls are pretty hot. They do naughty things with boys and men, then they go to Confession and think they're forgiven. And some of them also become liberal if they open themselves up to liberalism.

Sex abuse

The entire church has been generalised due to the Priest child molestation scandals in the United States, Ireland and in very many places elsewhere. Generally, most Catholics, as they are human beings, are disgusted at the idea of committing such acts and many decent people are losing faith in Roman Catholicism due to the continual repetition of one scandal after another worldwide.

Sadly some/many normal priests helped cover up for those who do those things as did the Catholic hierarchy from the Pope Benedict XVI downwards. Apologies from the RC hierarchy did not appear to include real regret and willingness to reform, see Abuse Victims Ask Court to Prosecute the Vatican and also Pope accused of crimes against humanity by victims of sex abuse. The position under Pope Francis is unclear and the record of Francis himself over child sex abuse is mixed.

Consensual sex

It happens, many Priests, monks, and nuns don't have the will power to stay Celibate. Material published in an Italian newspaper, "La Republica" suggest organised groups of priests meeting for gay sex and more. Somehow The Vatican came to own apartments in the same building as a notorious gay sauna. [3] Does that appeal to gay priests who aren't even trying to stay celibate anymore? Consensual sex between gay priests or between straight priests and women shouldn't be a problem the way predatory sex is but all this shows still further Sexual hypocrisy.

The Catholic Church and Hitler's Germany

The Roman Catholic Church was active during the Third Reich and World War II... as it had been active in Europe for over a thousand years beforehand.

Of course, Hitler wasn't conclusively a supporter of the Catholic Church [4] though he remained in the RC church and was never excommunicated, even though he should've been kicked out. [5]

Pope John Paul II was notably an opponent of the Nazis but he was in charge well after the war. [6]

There were millions of Roman Catholics in Nazi Germany and we should not stereotype them, we should not assume they were all the same, some were good but others were bad. There were good and bad people of many different types in Nazi Germany. [7]

The Catholic Church supported Nazi Germany and feared communism would take over the world.  Not all Catholics supported Nazi Germany, especially since it was anti-Church. Pope Pius XII aided the Jews after the Holocaust, but some say he didn't do enough.

The Catholic Church and Croatia

Massacres by Roman Catholics

During World War II the Roman Catholic Church in Croatia followed a policy of convert or die and 700,000 Greek Orthodox, Jewish people and others who would not convert were tortured and murdered in a manner that exceeded the cruelty of the Inquisition.

The Wars of the 1990s

During the wars of the 1900s, there were further massacres of Non-Catholics by Catholics with Priests complicit. This was done by Ustaše, a Fascist group led by Ante Pavelić. The Roman Catholic Church was complicit in the forced conversions of Serbs and Jews to Catholicism and the massacres of those who refused to convert.

Nazi Massacres

During World War II Roman Catholics collaborated with Nazis or Fascists in any number of mass murders.

In April 1941, Ante Pavelic headed a new Croat "Ustashe" regime in alliance with Nazi Germany, dedicated to the conversion to Catholicism or extermination of the Serbs and Jews of Croatia. At the end of April, as the killing began, a pastoral letter from Archbishop Stepinac called on all Catholics to support the Croat leader. Stepinac remained the head of the Catholic Church in Croatia during the genocide. [3]

A publication from Oxford University supports this statement.

(...) the (Roman Catholic) Church did not so much as censure, nor did it eliminate from its ranks, priests and men of religion who took part in the incitement against the Jews and in their murder. [4]

The Pope even made the leader of one group of murderers welcome at the Vatican.

While Pavelic's men were killing thousands of innocent Serb men, women and children, Pope Pius XII greeted Pavelic at the Vatican in 1941. The Vatican was fully informed of the genocide, yet continued to support the Croat regime, and rejoiced in the huge number of conversions to Catholicism. How the church believed these conversions were the result of anything other than terror is not known. [5]

It should surprise nobody that today Roman Catholics try to whitewash this criminality and pretend it never happened, frankly there's too much evidence that the Vatical was complicit in mass murder.

Of course, these atrocities having been carried out solely by the Croatian Catholic Church which was independent of the Vatican in terms of how it treated people, but the Vatican did not condemn them for that and as stated above even made one murderer welcome at the Vatican.


The Church and Politics

The Church is very much involved in electoral politics. Sometimes, it advocates liberal economic policies, such as helping poor people, but it generally promotes conservative social policies, including opposition to gay rights, reproductive rights, birth control, and advocates all forms of sexual repression. This puts them at odds with Libertarians, who believe in Conservative Free-Market economies, but Liberal Social ideas.

Out of touch with what couples do in bed

If you're a young married couple and you're burning with passion for each other you must resist the urge just long enough to pray first.

Mexican Immigrants

Most Mexican Immigrants are Catholic. Therefore, many Hispanic Catholic churches are in favor of having less restrictive immigration laws. However, unlike what Tom Tancredo believes, the Pope is not behind a conspiracy to send in illegal immigrants to destroy the United States of America.

Out of touch with reality

Cardinal Francis George actually compared the LGBT movement to the KKK. What did those LGBT essentially do to get themselves such a silly comparison? [6] Yes, they dared to plan a peaceful march on a Sunday morning that would pass an RC church through other churches on the march route had no problems. [7] What in God’s name was that worthy Cardinal thinking? If that level of discernment is typical of cardinals we can’t be surprised at the type of person they choose for a Pope.

What was the real problem? We know a great number of RC Priests, Monks and Nuns have a constant struggle maintaining Celibacy in the face of different types of sexual temptation. Could it be that a highly sexualised march just might stop some of them concentrating on the religious service?

See Also

External links


  1. O’Brien’s resignation exposes a panic-struck Church riddled with hypocrisy and guilt
  2. New Poll: ‘Faithful Catholics’ an Endangered Species
  3. Vatican Owns £21m Of Apartments In Same Rome Block Housing Europe's Biggest Gay Sauna Europa MulticlubAs cardinals gather to elect Pope, Catholic officials break into a sweat over news that priests share €23m building with huge gay saunaVatican department shares Rome palazzo with gay sauna
  7. Twelve Jesuit priests have been formally recognized by Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, for risking their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust of World War II: Roger Braun of France; Pierre Chaillet of France; Jean-Baptist De Coster of Belgium; Jean Fleury of France; Emile Gessler of Belgium; Jean-Baptiste Janssens of Belgium; Alphonse Lambrette of Belgium; Emile Planckaert of France; Jacob Raile of Hungary; Henri Revol of France; Adam Sztark of Poland; and Henri Van Oostayen of Belgium. Roman Catholic websites note them all because they want people to notice those heroic Roman Catholics. There were of course millions of other Roman Catholics who weren’t heroic. There were Roman Catholics who collaborated with the Nazis and some Roman Catholics belonged to the SS. There were Non-Catholics who acted heroically to save vulnerable people from Nazi persecution, again Roman Catholic websites are less likely to mention them. Several rescue efforts were made by people from all elements of the Catholic Church during the Holocaust, and it should not be assumed that the Catholic Church did nothing during World War Two except support the Nazi regime in Germany and facilitate the massacres it carried out. [1]

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